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"Long_Voyager94" (yourenotavalidusername) 01/20/2020 at 10:02 • Filed to: car talk, decisions

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Me and the wife talked about vehicle ideas this weekend. We discussed my plan to sell the 2 and buy 1 newer one to replace my current rally van:

Seems she’s decided we’re keeping what we have until the new van is paid off, at which we’ll go buy another new/almost new vehicle.

I’m not sure how I feel about this.

I like the idea of having nothing to work on, yet it scares me as I enjoy working on stuff occasionally and teaching the kids in the process.

I also don’t like the idea of being forced into all the tech crammed into new vehicles, nor do I have any interest in the driver aids also being shoved into new vehicles.  

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 10:09

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What is a good basic paint gun setup? As in, basic . Wanna spray some paint instead of rattle cans...

Sovande > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 10:12

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Serious question:  Have you driven a new vehicle with all the new tech crap and driver aids?  Because I thought it would suck too and I have to tell you it is pretty nice for a daily driver.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 10:13

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That is unfortunate. Can you frame it in such a way that if you were to follow your plan you’d actually be able to work on the new(er) van vs something new or almost new? You’d save the family money by being able to do the work yourself.

I know I'm asking a useless question. I've been married long enough to know that if the wife makes a decision, that's what we go with, unless the decision is completely asinine. 

Maxima Speed > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 10:19

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I agree. I have zero interest in the driving aids tech “goodies” being shoved in my face. I went to look at a Mazda 3 once and the salesman just wanted ro talk about the infotainment, and apologized that it wasn’t touch screen. And instead the screen was controlled by a knob. I told him i like it that way and as long as it could play music from my phone i was happy. If i buy a mazda Im buying it for the driving experience, for the machine. Lane assist, backup cameras, morion sensors, auto braking. I don’t want any of that stuff. I think that’s why I’ve been so happy with the mid 2000’s cars. They’re very safe cars, tracion con trol, ABS, side airbags, all that jazz. But they don’t have the rediculous excessive techno junk. Also seems like these era cars have held up very well against rust which is a major concern in my area.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 10:20

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Funny. We were just going over our fleet plans Saturday night...

Seems an obvious solution here: play along with the plan. Get a fairly bare-boned “new” car and save. Make sure it’s a reliable-ish model. With the savings, begin building the fund for a rally van. Won’t be the DD, wife thinks you and kids will be safe in the DD, and you’ll have a car to tinker with on the side and throw money at.

Tripper > Maxima Speed 01/20/2020 at 10:51

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Sales people get so boned up about the infotainment systems lol. If it’s not a carplay unit, then I will use my phone and whatever Bluetooth connectivity the car has. 

benjrblant > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 10:52

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I’d go with her plan. Buy a bunch of lego in the meantime. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 10:58

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I’ve got a Crown Vic P71 I’ll sell you. Low mileage. And a very interesting paint project that I would benefit from your input. I need to mask some patterns onto the paint. I am drawing up plans. I will be in touch.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Maxima Speed 01/20/2020 at 11:05

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I own a 2011 Mazda 3 and while it has a few glaring faults, it’s fun to drive the the 2.0L VVT four-banger is adequate. The manual transmission shifter is excellent . I’m very happy with it. Didn’t give but $4,000 for it and with only about 120k miles. ALSO, it’s a base, base, BASE model. Power windows and door locks. No fobs and not even a cruise control. Four-wheel disc brakes and I did a deal recently where I was able to swap out the sock steel wheels for some aluminum stylized rims off an ‘07 with a higher trim level.

I don’t know what your needs and desires are for a car, but if practicality is driving your purchase, I can recommend the 3 and I can also say that the Nissan Versa is worth a look. I fell into a 2012 Versa a couple of years ago and I find it a remarkably pleasant car to drive. Mine is the hatchback model. Stay away from CVTs...

There’s my $0.02, unsolicited. You got what you paid for.

Captain of the Enterprise > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 11:21

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I used a basic setup on my FSAE racing team. It was run off an air compressor through a paint gun. We bought the paint and mixed everything and then loaded it into the gun and painted.

I haven’t used one yet but they make electric paint guns now which could be cheaper as you skip the air compressor. 

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Sovande 01/20/2020 at 11:22

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I think all the driver’s aid stuff gets you some pretty steep insurance discounts, but I don’t know if that’s factored in across the whole model.  From my understanding you can turn them all off as well? You may have to do it every time you drive the car. I’m not sure if it causes other problems or is possible in ever make but I think pulling fuses might defeat those things if you can deal with some warning lights.

My next car will have ABS and Trac/ESC which I’m not used to and I don’t like relying on so I’m planning on pulling fuses at worst to defeat those things (maybe not ABS).

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Captain of the Enterprise 01/20/2020 at 11:39

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Now that you mention it, I bought one of these last year to paint some cabinet doors in the kitchen, but spraying automotive paint versus spraying latex paint might be different tools entirely.

I’ll be posting more about this project moving forward. I bought a Crown Vic P71 recently on an impulse and I am going to adapt US Navy WWII Dazzle camouflage to this car. I’ll have to mask and spray two or three different colors. And I will want to work in a low sheen. First time I’ll have ever painted a car other than with a rattle can.

Sovande > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 01/20/2020 at 11:53

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The TRAC/ECS on older Volvo’s was bad. It basically just limits power by applying the brakes.

I can (partially) t urn off traction control with a few button presses - it still leaves the yaw control on - and I can dis able start/stop (which I loathe) with the press of one button. I’m fine with the auto braking as it actually saved me once.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Sovande 01/20/2020 at 12:00

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That’s been my experience with most ESC/TRAC systems, cuts power or adds braking abruptly when you’re not expecting it. As much as I hate it I do understand some of the more developed systems are kind of like fly-by-wire planes (if I’m using that term correctly): they can make inputs better/faster/with more information than a human could, allowing for maneuvers that were at one point impossible.

What convinced me of that the most was watching moose  test videos of high COG vehicles and seeing how ‘the nannies’ made such a huge difference 

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 12:05

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Honestly, the Harbor Freight HVLP guns aren’t terrible to get your feet wet.

Long_Voyager94 > Sovande 01/20/2020 at 12:07

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I have.

I hate every single one of them. I enjoy driving my vehicle and know how to control it, I don’t want nor need a computer to try to do it for me.

Even our new van has TC and ASC, the latter of which you can’t turn off. Both of them get in the way and come in at exactly the wrong time, ending in a more dangerous situation than it would have been without.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:08

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I’ll check that out. This’ll be the first time I’ve painted a car. I am working up the scheme right now and will present the plan once I’ve got it made up.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:09

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Is there a brand of paint that you recommend that is economical and reasonable to work with?

Long_Voyager94 > Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! 01/20/2020 at 12:10

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Basically under my plan we’d essentially be spending nothing as the money I get from selling the Rally van and the Acclaim would fund the purchase of a newer van.

Under her plan we drive the 2 old ones until they’re worth nothing, then dump $25k+ into another new car.

Long_Voyager94 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/20/2020 at 12:11

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Once we’re down to 2 we won’t be getting a 3rd again for a very long time, so something bare bones definitely isn’t on the table as I won’t drive anything I don’t enjoy to drive.

Long_Voyager94 > benjrblant 01/20/2020 at 12:12

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Have you seen the price of Legos?

Pretty sur e I can buy a different vehicle cheaper than a bunch of Legos!

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 12:19

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If you’re just going for a Matte scheme, Rustoleum actually works very well. It can be cut with some paint thinner to make it easier to spray and it’s stupid cheap. That’s actually what I used on my 1995 Sport Wagon when I sprayed it satin black:

Otherwise I generally use Napa paint. It’s decent quality at a decent price.

Sovande > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:19

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I knew a guy who ran his Volvo C30 on the track and added a switch for the yaw control/abs. He could simply disable both (and get a warning and loss   of ABS) but everything else worked fine. Maybe you can see if that’s a possibility?

I don't drive my newer car very hard so I don't mind the nannies. The one time I found one to be obtrusive, it saved me from a fender bender. 

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:31

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Found this bad boy for you:

Chrysler Plymouth Voyager

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/d/mesa-chrysler-plymouth-voyager/7045179072.html

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:32

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So you’re getting a new car that you’ll enjoy driving? Tough break!

Long_Voyager94 > Sovande 01/20/2020 at 12:35

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I’d rather just not have them to try to turn off to begin with.

Honestly, buying a car that has things I don’t want bothers me more than buying one without a few things I do want.

Long_Voyager94 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/20/2020 at 12:37

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Finding a new car I’ll enjoy will be the tough part...

Especially one we agree on.

Long_Voyager94 > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2020 at 12:38

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Holy hell, $2450 and they couldn’t even be bothered to clean the inside?

Hard pass. The inside looks like that I can take a good guess how the rest of it was maintained.

fintail > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:44

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“Seems she’s decided we’re keeping”

99 problems something something something.  

benjrblant > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:56

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That’s the point!

“well, my previous hobby was a lot cheaper...”

Sovande > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:58

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I suppose if you aren’t interested in disabling the fe atures, then you will be stuck with old cars . Obviously, g overnment mandates will probably force all cars to have the safety things as the result of the implementation is fewer deaths, and that, for some, is a good thing.

Long_Voyager94 > fintail 01/20/2020 at 12:58

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Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 12:58

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Go with Mega Bloks!!!

Long_Voyager94 > Sovande 01/20/2020 at 13:00

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Funny they claim that, yet the year these nannies were mandated, traffic deaths increased.......And there’s yet to be any noticeable decline in deaths since.

Honestly, to me they just enable people to pay even less attention then they already do. That to me isn’t making anyone safer, it’s just expanding the issue even further by creating even worse drivers.

Long_Voyager94 > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 01/20/2020 at 13:01

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OMG, Fuck MegaBloks.

shpuker > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 13:11

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I mean if you’re gonna go for it, go full send

DipodomysDeserti > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2020 at 13:35

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Is that a lot for one of these? A running Chevy G20 could easily fetch double that. That good ol’ Chrysler resale value.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 14:22

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Would she let you get something cheap and silly like a little scooter to tinker with?

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 14:50

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Megabloks are Canadian!!! You say you want to fuck Canadians????

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 14:54

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You can buy Rust-Oleum to spray yourself? I like the satin sheen. Would you recommend gravity-fed gun? Some of those are under $20 at HF.

thejustache > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 15:54

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I hear you on the new vehicle hate. I don’t have any problem with having one as a family shuttle or the like, but I will not willingly drive one myself on the daily. Thankfully my 2005 has nothing but abs, and I like it that way. Driving my wife’s car in a snow storm last night I had to defeat all the safety nannies to get it to handle predictably, and it’s only a 2012. I don’t know what I’m going to do when mine gets too old to daily

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 15:59

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Yep, they sell it in gallon cans.

I only use gravity feed HVLP guns anymore ( exception of one gun we use for heavy primer or heavy metal flake ). Once you get them tuned in they spray great and have way less waste than the bottom feed guns.

Long_Voyager94 > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2020 at 16:02

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It’s dependent on condition.

My 1994 for example would have no issue fetching $3500-4k, but it’s spotless inside and out with receipts for everything done.

That one is a shit show inside, which tells me plenty about how the rest of it was taken care of. I’d give $1200 top dollar for that one.

Mostly, good ones range from $2500-5500.

Long_Voyager94 > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 01/20/2020 at 16:03

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I mean me and the kids have already been talking on getting some go karts to rip around on, but that’s already in the works before this.

Long_Voyager94 > thejustache 01/20/2020 at 16:05

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Our 2018 has TC, ASC, and ABS. The ABS is fine, but I could seriously do for the other 2 to be disabled. They have created some seriously dangerous situations by suddenly interfering more than once already.

For me it’d be a daily-ish, so I have to enjoy it before I’ll even consider it.

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 16:10

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I couldn’t imagine paying $5,500 for a ‘94 Chrysler minivan. Paying Toyota money for Chrysler quality.

Long_Voyager94 > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2020 at 16:18

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You’re talking to the guy who’s never found a reliable Toyota, nor has my family. Meanwhile that “Chrysler quality” has no issue taking us 2-3- 400k miles without issue.

Long_Voyager94 > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2020 at 16:54

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Honestly though I think a lot of the rise in price comes from their versatility. They are literally a do all vehicle.

That and the lack of complicated electronics, I think a lot of people are starting to “hunt” for these older vehicles in good shape.

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 17:26

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My Jeep couldn’t even make it 90k without requiring me to drop the transmission. I actually just bought my first Toyota on Friday, but at 200k miles I’m impressed with how well it is put together. I think there’s a big difference between the cars and trucks, though.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/20/2020 at 17:26

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How many gallons did that minivan take? 

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/21/2020 at 07:00

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Under a gallon for 3 coats.

Long_Voyager94 > DipodomysDeserti 01/21/2020 at 07:16

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Guessing you also never changed the fluid/filter in your Jeep in that 90k as you should have? No offense, but it’s the single most overlooked service on Chrysler, and the single one that keeps them from having trans issues.

So far our list is as follows:

2009 Toyota Tundra, engine failure at 36k miles, massive electronic failure at 45k miles. T raded on an 06 Ram with 18k miles at that point. Said 06 Ram currently has 245k miles, drivetrain is all original, it’s needed a timing seal and a water pump around 200k outside of regular wear and tear ( brakes, tires, fluid changes ) , still looks showroom inside and out.

2015-16, Sienna , engine let fly at 28k miles, van was dumped at 36k when the trans was starting to let fly. Epicly cheap feeling vehicle that got terrible economy. Traded on the Highlander.

2016-17 Highlander, engine began consuming massive amounts of oil at 22k miles, Toyota refused warranty saying 4-5 qts between changes was within specs. Dumped at 28k when the trans started skipping gears and slipping.

Mine: 2012 Corolla S manual, 2 engines, 3 transmissions under warranty . All while having worse fit and finish than the 1990 Spirit it replaced and getting worse fuel economy. Ended up ditching it at 85k ( before the warranty ran out ).

Mind you, all our vehicles are meticulously maintained, many times exceeding manufacturer’s suggestion as we want our stuff to last. Our experience with Toyota is they’re subpar vehicles living off their 90s reputation.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 08:33

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It looks like Rustoleum in gallon cans only comes in black. Looking at Napa, I find that the paint is very expensive. This will do nothing to hasten my tackling this project.

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 09:13

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I’m pretty religious about maintenance. I own classic cars and motorcycles, and am accustomed to staying on top of things.

There’s no transmission filter on the manual Wrangler, but I changed the trans, TC and diff oil when I first bought the truck at around 30k. Did it again at 60k which is well before what Chrysler recommends .

The asshole Chrysler engineers routed the exhaust connector pipe right under the trans drain plug, so draining requires a special tool, removing the exhaust, or designing a a custom bolt (which I did).

However, oil had nothing to do with my issue. They used a shitty, plastic bodied pilot bearing which is a known failure point. Mine ate shit along with my clutch which decided to fall apart. Had clutch springs just bouncing around in pressure plate.

This is my first foray into the Toyota world, so my experience is limited. Mine’s a first gen Tundra, so I think it’s more of a ‘90s Toyota.

I’ve owned everything from ‘60s Chevys to modern BMWs and have never killed a car, so I’m not too concerned about total engine failure. Some people just have bad luck with vehicles, I guess.

Long_Voyager94 > DipodomysDeserti 01/21/2020 at 10:04

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My apologies on the Wrangler, I didn’t know about the manual’s pilot issue.

I’ve been across the board on my vehicles as well . Strangely enough, Toyota and Honda have been the only ones I’ve had major issue with.

I will admit I’m harder on my vehicles than most people, but likewise, I maintain my vehicles more than most people even think to change their oil.

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/21/2020 at 10:05

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You can also buy Rustoleum in QT cans in various colors.

As far as auto paint, Napa is about as cheap as it comes.

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 10:43

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The only brand that I’ve ever had a nightmare experience with that I’ll never go back to is Kia. The quality of my ‘70s Honda motorcycles was lightyears ahead of what they were putting out in the ‘oos.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 11:11

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A quick look at Napa and at Rustoleum makes me think that painting my Vic will cost $300-600 in paint alone. This may be prohibitive and I may stick with rattle cans. Though if you look at some pictures of Dazzle camo in WWII, it looks like they applied the paint in haste.

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/21/2020 at 11:57

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The QT cans of Rustoleum are like $10 a piece? 2 cans of white, 2 cans of black, Camo away.

$300-600 is about the minimum you can expect to spend painting a vehicle yourself, not to mention the countless hours of prep to get it to turn out decent.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 12:26

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Where would you generally source that Rustoleum?

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/21/2020 at 12:38

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Home improvement stores, Home Depot, Menards, etc.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 13:57

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In quart cans for automobiles?? Sorry to be such a pest today...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 15:26

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So you are talking about thinning some of this and painting the car with it?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Stops-Rust-1-Qt-Protective-Enamel-Satin-Black-Interior-Exterior-Paint-7777502/100184504

That makes sense. Apologies that I can be a little slow sometimes. Presumably, then, I could mix some white with some gray to change the shade? Scuff it and prime it first?

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/21/2020 at 15:58

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Na, just regular Rustoleum outdoor paint.

It will hold up plenty well for quite some time without the need to spend hundreds.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 16:17

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And guess what: lots about spraying Rustoleum on YouTube. I think if ever there was a car that was appropriate for a Rustoleum paint job, it’s my Vic.

I have to mask some patterns for the Dazzle camo. Do you have a favorite masking tape?

Long_Voyager94 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/21/2020 at 16:36

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3M Blue is about all I used these days.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 01/21/2020 at 16:47

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When the time arrives, I am hoping to interview you about your taping abilities. I’ll have to tape off regions and patterns and I expect that to be a little bit tricky. But Rusto paint at $10/qt is well within my budget. I think that with a little bit of effort, I’ll have something pretty cool here. The Dazzle pattern will have black segments that go up the sides to the roof, and I will continue those segments with limousine tint. An art piece, it’ll be.

I don’t know if I told you this. The Dazzle camouflage measure I chose, Measure 32, Design 3D, was worn by the destroyer USS Livermore, DD-429. My Vic was retired from the Livermore, Ca. Police Department. Livermore survived the war and was decommissioned in 1947.